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	<title>Comments on: Weakening morality (Angel Spoilers)</title>
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	<link>http://avec.teamforce.org/buffyverse/weakening-morality-angel-spoilers/</link>
	<description>Sinking Ships Since the Dawn of Time</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 15:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: stopbits</title>
		<link>http://avec.teamforce.org/buffyverse/weakening-morality-angel-spoilers/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>stopbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avec.teamforce.org/?p=51#comment-3</guid>
		<description>You are totally correct about the weakening morality. I wonder if it is intentional, or if it just sloppy, like someone that doesn't really understand the show how holding the reigns. 

Yes, the whole soul thing is tricky. What I think makes it more tricky is this: Do Spike and Angel have the same soul that Liam and William had?  Or do they have some new generic soul.? 

What happens when a person is turned by a vampire? I always felt that the person dies. They (Their soul) go on to whatever afterlife, but their body is then reborn as a vampire.  If Liam's soul was removed from heaven or hell and then placed in angelus's body, then we have to consider the effect that would have on said soul (think Buffy in Season 6).  Also consider that when people are in heaven or hell in the buffyverse, they seem to be conscious of it. So what happened to Liam's consciousness (in the afterlife), once his soul is removed. quite a conundrum, indeed. 

I prefer to think that Spike's and Angel's soul are not the souls of William or Liam. They are just a generic "soul".

Of course, there is also the other side of the coin, that Liam and William did not go to the afterlife when they were turned. This might explain why Spike's soul would end up going to Hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are totally correct about the weakening morality. I wonder if it is intentional, or if it just sloppy, like someone that doesn&#8217;t really understand the show how holding the reigns. </p>
<p>Yes, the whole soul thing is tricky. What I think makes it more tricky is this: Do Spike and Angel have the same soul that Liam and William had?  Or do they have some new generic soul.? </p>
<p>What happens when a person is turned by a vampire? I always felt that the person dies. They (Their soul) go on to whatever afterlife, but their body is then reborn as a vampire.  If Liam&#8217;s soul was removed from heaven or hell and then placed in angelus&#8217;s body, then we have to consider the effect that would have on said soul (think Buffy in Season 6).  Also consider that when people are in heaven or hell in the buffyverse, they seem to be conscious of it. So what happened to Liam&#8217;s consciousness (in the afterlife), once his soul is removed. quite a conundrum, indeed. </p>
<p>I prefer to think that Spike&#8217;s and Angel&#8217;s soul are not the souls of William or Liam. They are just a generic &#8220;soul&#8221;.</p>
<p>Of course, there is also the other side of the coin, that Liam and William did not go to the afterlife when they were turned. This might explain why Spike&#8217;s soul would end up going to Hell.</p>
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		<title>By: laf</title>
		<link>http://avec.teamforce.org/buffyverse/weakening-morality-angel-spoilers/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>laf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avec.teamforce.org/?p=51#comment-4</guid>
		<description>i think it's pretty obvious that they're being corrupted. especially charles - like he let the w&#038;h pump his brain full of stuff, that's just got to be a majorly bad idea.  just being there they're making "moral" compromises all over the place.

maybe they're saying it's okay to kill evil people? i mean, that necomancer guy was pretty darn evil, he barely even seemed human. 

in terms of trimming characters, i mean, harmony is a bit funny and everything but good for nothing more than one liners...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think it&#8217;s pretty obvious that they&#8217;re being corrupted. especially charles - like he let the w&#038;h pump his brain full of stuff, that&#8217;s just got to be a majorly bad idea.  just being there they&#8217;re making &#8220;moral&#8221; compromises all over the place.</p>
<p>maybe they&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s okay to kill evil people? i mean, that necomancer guy was pretty darn evil, he barely even seemed human. </p>
<p>in terms of trimming characters, i mean, harmony is a bit funny and everything but good for nothing more than one liners&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Avec Ships</title>
		<link>http://avec.teamforce.org/buffyverse/weakening-morality-angel-spoilers/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Avec Ships</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://avec.teamforce.org/?p=51#comment-5</guid>
		<description>In retrospect, I guess my whole thinking about this little segment is "are the writers doing this intentionally or not."

Because as you said, there are obviously the overt temptations like Gunn and such, but they always seem to be stewing about it, but never acknowledging whether their actions are reflective of it.  Except spike of course, who is like the Greek Chorus of Angel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In retrospect, I guess my whole thinking about this little segment is &#8220;are the writers doing this intentionally or not.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because as you said, there are obviously the overt temptations like Gunn and such, but they always seem to be stewing about it, but never acknowledging whether their actions are reflective of it.  Except spike of course, who is like the Greek Chorus of Angel.</p>
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